How is meditation related to our life? What is Nibbana? -- Dr. Jeffrey Po

Jeffrey Po spoke to Venerable Dr. Dhammapiya who teaches Vipassana (insight) meditation and Metta (loving-kindness) meditation in USA, Myanmar and other countries to find out more.

In Conversation with Venerable Sayadaw Dr. Dhammapiya

JPo : Welcome to Singapore and could you say something about your visit to Singapore?

Ven : I was invited to conduct two retreats ?one concerning Metta and the other concerning Vipassana at the Satipatthana Meditation Centre in Singapore. I am not a frequent visitor to Singapore and am only here probably once or twice a year.

JPo : Where is your own centre?

Ven : Well, it is in America but I am also assisting a university in Myanmar and I therefore shuttle often between those two countries.

JPo : You are quite a well known meditation teacher ?well how important would this aspect of Buddhist practice be to a lay Buddhist?

Ven : Here we need to understand that meditation can be viewed from two parts ?one is the fundamental level while the other is the higher level. The former is very powerful in the social life and in society as well because nowadays many people have worries, pressures, depressions and serious emotional problems. This is because they do not know how to balance their lives within their living environments. And so they misinterpret what to do and how to handle situations. Meditation therefore helps them to balance their minds and lives accordingly because meditation shows the technique of how to explore their minds to live in peace and happiness. This is why it appeals so much to Western people because they don’t expect much from this practice and do not expect to be liberated from the sufferings of samsara. They want some peace for this very life. Of course, this is something different from the Buddhist tradition where we try to find liberation which is the higher level meant for the other type of seekers. So at the fundamental level, I conduct meditation for people to find peace, harmony and serenity. I teach them to be at the present moment and not to live in the past or the future.

JPo : If one reads the suttas, one invariably finds that the Buddha’s instructions on meditation seemed to be directed to the bhikkus and to members of the Sangha and not to the lay followers. So do lay Buddhist really need to adopt meditative practices as part of their training or would following the moral, ethical and social precepts such as those mentioned in the Sigalovada Sutta be sufficient?

Ven : As you are aware there are three basic trainings for Buddhists, whether they are for bhikkhus or lay people. The three trainings are the sila (morality), samadhi (concentration) and panna (wisdom). From there you can see that those suttas which related to morality and social behaviour are directly concern with the sila aspect. Hence, although He had directed various suttas to bhikkhus, they are also meant for lay people. However, unlike the bhikkhus, it may not be necessary for lay people to go the forest to practise intensely and deeply. Lay people can also attain a certain level of liberation as, for instance, like the Buddha’s own father King Suddhodana. But for the monks, because they have to leave the society, their meditation is more intense and it forms a major emphasis of their training.

JPo : Here we know that Samatha (tranquility) and Vipassana (insight) meditation techniques are in fact complementary meditational and emotional experiences. How do your Western audience perceive them?

Ven : Nowadays there are some misinterpretations of those two meditational practices. Actually those two are involved in “Bhavana?which is a Pali word meaning mental development and they apply to both Samatha and Vipassana. But there are certain teachers who teach Samatha first and then Vipassana and others who teach only Vipassana. Fundamentally, whatever and wherever you start is okay. However, if you want to obtain liberation, there is only one way and that is through Vipassana. Vipassana essentially explores the “I-concept?which we are so attached to. So we need Vipassana to really uproot this “I-concept?in order to get into the first stage of enlightenment. It is strange that we are often confused about this “I-concept? We think it is our ego and we don’t realize that it is from the temporary removal of this “I-concept?that we can get rid of our other impurities such as selfishness. From here, we can draw out our other positive human values such compassion and loving-kindness. If we cannot gain enlightenment yet, well, at least from here, we can become closer to gaining enlightenment.

JPo : But don’t you think that it seems paradoxical that while on the one hand we are living in this very competitive secular society that encourages people to set targets, cultivate ambitions, be aggressive, put up goals towards achievements, cultivate the power of self-motivation to be successful, on the other hand Buddhist meditation teachers are instructing yogis to remove the “I-concept? Would this be seen this as some sort of “negation to living?

Ven : If a person attends a Vipassana meditation retreat, the meditation teacher will encourage you to explore this “I-concept? Actually, we don’t really challenge whether it exists or not. We don’t try to forcibly try to tell you to remove this “I? Instead, we try to explore and find out whether or not this “I?truly exists. If in the end, we find that this “I?actually does not exist, it does not really matter. More importantly, we have developed our sense of awareness or mindfulness. In the Western philosophical concept, they say “I?because they think that the “I?exists. However, in Buddhist way, we say “I?when we think there is still no “I? “I?only exists as a concept which functions because of our existence in society. It is really not important to know whether or not it exists. But if you are very mindful, you will know how to lead your daily life; how to take care of the family, finance and children’s education. The real important things are compassion, universal love, appreciation, respect, patience. These are the wonderful qualities which the human beings need to carry on their family and social life. It is not really important to know whether the “I-concept?exists or not. Therefore, there is no negation to living.

JPo : Your PhD thesis concerns the topic of Nibbana. Would Venerable wish to say something about this?

Ven : Yes, we need to understand that Nibbana is a theoretical concept. Yes, it is the Buddhist goal that monks and lay people try to reach. But if we have not reached it, then we cannot do much about it. But in its simplistic form, Nibbana is a situation reached when one departs from craving. What is craving? Craving is attachment to something. While there is nothing wrong about attachment, however, it must be limited because the more we are attached to something, then the more we suffer. Hence, Nibbana can also mean getting away from suffering.

JPo : As a meditation teacher, have you in your experience found that some yogis who after they had undergone certain meditation practices find difficulties in adjusting back to their daily routines and social interactions with others?

Ven : Yes, in fact, in meditational retreats, we train the people and tell them meditation is supposed to help them improve their daily lives and way of living. You must learn certain techniques and skills to lead a more balanced life and to apply what you have learned when you go back home.

We don’t teach people to be “liberated from samsara?but we tell people how to behave with positive thinking.

The Buddha’s teaching is the Middle Way and that is all about life and living. What is more important is to understand the Buddha’s Dhamma and to apply them to daily living. Again come back to the three trainings of sila (morality), samadhi (concentration) and panna (wisdom). The moral training is important as they are the basis for your fundamental behaviour. The rest are build upon and around this. Buddhists must build up this base while the other two will greatly depend upon your living conditions.

JPo : Thank you Venerable for your contribution.

Meditation is not to fulfill what we wish. Instead, I always say that meditation is supposed “not to fulfill what we wish? Actually, we are there to know what meditation is all about. In meditation we have to learn and explore our daily lives and we are supposed to balance things up so that when we go back to society, we are better people.