Lati Rinpoche, one of the world's
foremost Buddhist scholar, has been a visiting professor of Buddhist Studies at
the University of Virginia USA.
One of the most prolific writers,
Rinpoche has authored or co-authored, amongst others some of the most
authoritative commentaries in Tibetan Buddhism : "Death, Intermediate
State and Rebirth", "Mind in Tibetan Buddhism", "Meditative
States in Tibetan Buddhism".
HE Kyabje Lati Rinpoche is one of HH the Dalai Lama's spiritual advisers and the Root Guru of Trijang Rinpoche Yangsi - Trijang Rinpoche is the present Dalai Lama's junior tutor
The interview is conducted by Kunga Nyima on 26 December 2000 at Sakyamuni Dharma Centre
VEGETARIANISM IN BUDDHIST MONASTERIES
Q: In recent years, we heard
that there are plans to convert the diet of the three great Gelugpa monasteries
into full vegetarianism. What is Rinpoche's view of this plan and for that
matter, for Buddhist monasteries in general, to become full vegetarian?
A: I am very happy the
monastic authorities want to make this huge change. That is really appreciable.
I really support this type of change coming up.
Q: Why does Rinpoche feel that
it is better to be vegetarian?
A: If the number of people who
consume meat is reduced, it then automatically reduces the number of people who
kill the animals to meet the demand. In this way, by becoming vegetarian, we
contribute, to some extent, the reduction in the number of animals
killed.
Q: Why is it then in old Tibet
that the monasteries are rarely fully vegetarian?
A: In Tibet, there are many
people who are strict vegetarian. Even in the big monasteries where there are
huge gatherings of monks, they never eat non-vegetarian food. In the monk's
individual quarters, though, there might be some monks who eat meat as some
food.
Vegetarianism is something not very new in Tibetan society. Generally, in the
old Tibetan society, most of the people try to avoid taking the meat
specifically killed to feed individual person. This is evident in every level
of Tibetan Society.
Even in the scriptures of the Buddha, we have to avoid taking such meat which is
killed specially just to feed ourselves. The texts prohibit us from taking this
type of meat. That is the common way of practice and instructions in the
Buddha's teachings. Especially in the Mahayana teachings, when a person does
intensive practice of Bodhicitta, they are advised or prescibed to avoid taking
meat.
INTRODUCTION OF THE BHIKSHUNI ORDINATION INTO
TIBETAN BUDDHISM
Q: What is Rinpoche's view
about introducing the Bhikshuni ordination into Tibetan Buddhism?
A: If the tradition of the
Bhikshuni ordination is an authentic and valid one that can be traced back to
the Buddha, such a lineage of the Bhikshuni ordination is indeed worthy of my
support for introduction back into Tibetan Buddhism. I really support it. On
the other hand, if the Bhikshuni ordination is something that we are not very
certain of in terms of its lineage, history and others, then I think it is not
proper to introduce into Tibetan Buddhism.
The issue of the Bhikshuni ordination is a very much discussed and investigated
subject not just in Tibetan Buddhist circles but also in Burmese Buddhism, Sri
Lankan Buddhism, Thai Buddhism and so on. All these different traditions of
Buddhism are all doing serious investigations into the present surviving
lineage of the Bhikshuni ordination. The important thing is that we need the
continuation of the ordination "blessings" or the valid lineal
connection all the way back to the Buddha. If we are able to trace this without
doubt, we can really support it.
Q: What is Rinpoche's view on
the Buddha's alleged answer to Venerable Ananda that with the establishment of
the Bhikshuni ordination, the period of time where the world will have the
Dharma, sometimes called the "True Dharma Period", will be reduced by
half?
A: We find such stories or
historical events allegedly happening in the Buddha's lifetime. We are not sure
what is the main objective behind this type of advice given by the Buddha to
Ananda. We will need to find out what is the real meaning behind such advice
given by the Buddha.
Q: So does Rinpoche think this
is true?
A: Anyway, these accounts
happen more than 2,000 years ago. Even if these accounts are true, we will not
know what is the main objective or meaning about this alleged statement from
the Buddha to Ananda.
Q: Does Rinpoche think that
these accounts are true?
A: I have never encountered
such accounts or stories in the Buddhist scriptures. I will believe in these
accounts when I really find them in the Buddha's scriptures. I have read many
different Vinaya texts. But I have never seen this alleged conversation before.
Q: What is Rinpoche's view on
the so-called "Eight Pure Vows" that all Bhikshunis need to observe?
For example what does Rinpoche think of one of these eight vows which states
that even the most senior Bhikshuni need to bow and be subordinate to even a
newly-ordained monk?
A: I have also encountered
this question in the west.
I told them that this specific vow is given by the Buddha 2,500 years ago. This
advice is acceptable to the then social practices.
However, later on, the society changes. Due to the change in the society, the
mentality of the people correspondingly change. The female sex begins to
emphasise on equal rights. At that time, this advice is given in conformity to
the situation of the society and the mentality of the people then. But in
today's society, as the mentality change, it seems not to be appropriate to
follow this advice.
Q: So, do the nuns need to
follow this advice?
A: The Buddha has drawn a
borderline for the Bhikshunis: if you want to be a Bhikshuni, you must follow a
certain type of lifestyle. Now, if you do not follow these precepts, you will
break the precepts.
These precepts cannot be changed. These borderlines set up by the Buddha 2,500
years ago cannot be changed by someone 2,500 years ago later.
These issues are mainly aggressively campaigned by a small minority of nuns.
The majority of nuns are still faithfully following the precepts. If they
follow the Buddha's precepts, they will gain merit. If they don't, they gain
demerits!
MORE CENTRES - GOOD ?
Q: In recent years, Singapore
has witnessed a great blossoming of many new Buddhist societies, especially
those affiliated with the Tibetan Buddhist tradition.
There are 2 views about this: One is that having many centres weakens the
original centre and we end up with not one strong centre but numerous weak
centres.
The other view is that these different centres are supported by different
people and so the original centre is not affected adversely.
Moreover, different centres cater to needs of people with different karmic
links and that these many centres is a favourable sign of the proliferation of
the Dharma just as is the case with other religious groups.
What is Rinpoche's idea on this?
A: It is difficult to adopt
one single standpoint on this issue. In my trip to Malaysia during my previous
teaching tour to South-east Asia, I attended a religious seminar. The Malaysian
Prime Minister, Dr Mahathir Mohammad, was also present then. Dr Mahathir said
that He gives full endorsement to the existence of numerous centres of all
different faiths throughout the land because these different centres are
educating the public to be good people. These centres contribute towards the
peace and happiness of the society. I feel that this is reasonable and
logical.
I personally feel that it is good idea to have many centres.
FLYING TO OTHER CENTRES ?
Q: According to some resident
teachers of some of the Buddhist centres, they do not encourage their students
or members to visit other centres or to participate in other centres'
programmes.
These people claimed that their own centre already provides all the teachings
that are needed and that going to these different centres will be
confusing.
It has been suggested however that these people are simply afraid of losing
their followers or sponsors to new centres.
What does Rinpoche feel about this?
A: It is very difficult to say
something about this because we can hardly know what are the motivations or
intentions of these people. It is very difficult to say this is good or
bad.
Deep in their mind, when they give these instructions to their students, if
they think that if these students go to other centres, they may be coming into
contact with the wrong teachers or instructions, if the advice is coming from
such feelings, then it is fine.
But if the advice is coming from other less noble motivation such as worrying
about losing followers or sponsors to other more attractive teachers, this is
then a very bad act.
Q: What does Rinpoche feel
about a centre helping out other centres in their programmes in terms of
logistics, co-ordination and the like even should they come from different
traditions?
A: Helping each other out is
totally appreciable and good.
Q: Can students of one
tradition attend teachings from established or realised masters of other
tradition?
A: If they go to attend the
teachings from these great masters through their own interest and needs, we
have to be appreciative and supportive of it. If they are not willing to, of
course, we cannot push them! Even in the case of high tantric Initiations, if
the students are capable of practising them, it is highly appreciable for them
to attend even if they are of different lineages and traditions.
BUDDHISM MISINFORMED - WHAT TO DO ?
Q: In certain countries and
contexts, certain religious groups are busy propagating misinformation on
Buddhism and other faiths in attempts to increase their own religious groups'
following. What should we as Buddhists do?
A: One important fact here is
that we always need to avoid feelings of animosity towards these groups of
people. We always have to avoid these feelings. It is destructive karma if we
have negative feelings.
The real action we can take is to have compassion for the people who misinform
and people who have been misinformed or misled. Teach them the real facts about
Buddhism. We have to try to open their eyes to the bad
"advertisements" that they have been exposed. We must point out to
them whatever is untrue. We should try to reach out to them and tell them the
facts. Let them get into the right path and practice. This is what we need to
do.
However, even after such efforts, they still feel that other religious
practices are more suitable for them, then this is their choice. Religion is a
matter for the individual. We cannot make laws to stop conversions!
This is what we can do.
SIX-REALMS OF EXISTENCE IN EXISTENCE ?
Q: Some Buddhist scholars have
put across that the 6 Realms of Existence according to the Buddhist teachings
are not to be taken in its literal context but should be interpreted in a
figurative manner. For example, they put forward that hells do not exist below
the earth under Bodhigaya but can be found say in the sufferings experienced by
final stage cancer patients.
What does Rinpoche think about this?
A: The existence of the 6
Realms is true and factual in samsara. It is not a mere ideological
theory.
It has been perceived by many great practitioners in the past. These great
practitioners have seen the 6 Realms with their eyes. If these things do not
exist, the Buddha will not have taught about them. The Buddha does not need to
lie to us.
Q: Does Rinpoche think that we
can also take the 6 Realms in a figurative manner also? It is said that the
hells can be found in hamburgers with the pigs getting sliced and
roasted.
A: I think it is not a good
idea to take the 6 Realms in a purely figurative way because there are real
hell realms existing. We don't need to interpret the 6 Realms in such a way
simply to justify the existence of them to others. These realms truly
exist.
The hells exist due to the bad karma of others. The Buddha in many sutras and
Shantideva in the Bodhicharyavatara said that the creators of hells, the fire,
the iron castles, the burning flames and others are created by the sinful mind.
The hells are produced as a result of individual bad karma. The causes of hells
have been thoroughly explained.
Q: What has been
counter-argued is that we are never going to find the hells underneath
Bodhigaya as stated in the Abhidharmakosha, right?
A: Well, no one has dug that
deep! It is not a good reason to say they do not exist simply because we cannot
see them or have not seen them. For example, there is moisture in the air
though we cannot see them. Whether we see them or not, there is moisture in the
air. Science has yet been able to account for everything in the world!
"YOU NEED MORE MERIT FOR MY
TRADITION"
Q: These years, there are a
few very famous teachers who said that to be able to meet with their own
tradition's teachings, beings will need especial extra merit. Those with less
merit can never meet their tradition's teachings.
For example, they say that Milarepa has to undergo great hardships to gain
enlightenment because He has no merit to meet with Je Tzongkhapa's teachings.
This, according to them, is contrasted to Gyalwa Ensapa who gained
enlightenment relatively easier because He has enough merit to practise
according to Tzongkhapa's tradition.
Citing another example, some other teachers claimed that their
"termas" are much superior to other teachings and even other similar
"terma" in their own tradition. These masters may think that saying
so encourages their students to practise hard. It sometimes has the unfortunate
effect though of making their students extremely conceited about their own
lineage and being unfairly condescending towards other lineages.
Statements like these from these famous teachers have unfortunately created
some minor havoc in the Tibetan Buddhist circle.
What is Rinpoche's viewpoint on this?
A: Generally, to have a human
rebirth, we need a lot of merit. To come into further contact with the Buddhist
teachings, we need even more merit. From this point of view, we need much merit
to come into contact with Je Tzongkhapa's teachings, some of the
"terma" teachings mentioned above and for that matter, any Buddhist
teachings of all the other traditions. We need huge amount of merit to come
into contact with teachings of every tradition. From this point of view, what
is said is acceptable. If we use common sense, we will be able to understand it
well.
On the other hand, we cannot say that we will need more merit to come into
contact with Je Tzongkhapa's teachings and we will only need less merit to come
into contact with teachings of other traditions. We also need much merit to
come into contact with teachings of all other traditions!
If we say that not everyone is coming into contact with Je Tzongkhapa''
teachings, neither is everyone coming into contact with some of the
"terma" teachings. This kind of "quantifying" merits in
relation to traditions is inappropriate.
Milarepa has to undergo great physical hardship to purify much non-virtuous
deeds accumulated earlier on in His life. Besides this difference, both Gyalwa
Ensapa and Milarepa worked hard! It is not true that Milarepa worked hard but
Gyalwa Ensapa has it easier! Gyalwa Ensapa did put in maximum effort to attain
Enlightenment. If people claimed that Gyalwa Ensapa did not put in much effort
to gain Enlightenment, then this is wrong. These people have the wrong
understanding.
REVISIONIST TENDENCIES - GOOD ?
Q: Amongst many Gelugpa
centres around the world today, there is a trend to practise only the Solitary
Yamantaka and the Vajrayogini of the Naropa Tradition or more commonly called
the Naro Kachod.
There are 2 view points on these: One is that this is all we need to practise
to attain Buddhahood. Anyway, these practices seem relatively simpler in terms
of their presentation and appear to be more appropriate for busy people in a
modern industrialized society.
The other one is the concern that only concentrating on these two practices are
diverting from and diluting the essence of the Gelugpa tradition as
traditionally, the Gelugpas's main practice focuses on the 13-Deity Yamantaka,
Chakrasamvara and Guhyasamaja.
What does Rinpoche think about this matter?
A: If someone is capable of
carrying out the practices of the 13-Deity Yamantaka, Chakrasamvara and
Guhyasamaja combined as taught by Je Tzongkhapa Himself, this is the best and
highly appreciable.
If someone is not as capable, has not enough time or does not feel capable
enough, well, he or she still needs to do some Dharma practice. For these
people, the Solitary Yamantaka and the Vajrayogini is also good. It is like you
have to eat what is most suitable for your stomach. Not everyone can eat
everything!
But if the people can do it, it is best that they do the 3 great tantras.